Problem when downloading PAR2 after failed verify

[Manni]

Hi everyone, and as this is my first post thanks a lot for a great software.

I am using Sabnzbd+ 0.6.5 in a Qnap NAS, and am generally very happy with it.

I have two main issues:

1) When set to only download PAR2 files if verification fails (to save bandwidth), Sab doesn't follow my schedule and forces the download, which means I often get large doanwloads outside of my free allowance.
Is there a way to ask for the PAR2 download not to be forced and follow the schedule? Or to getthe option back which allows to download all the PAR2 files as part of the job (it seems to have disappeared).
2) I much prefer the plush skin, but the sort by age doesn't always work, and it doesn't display the age of the jobs, which forces to go back to classic when yu need to organise a queue in relation to the age of the tasks. For example, to make sure that your HIGH priorities tasks are also sorted by age. Could the sort by age befixed, and would it be possible to display the age of the jobs, like in the classic skin?

Thanks very much for any help on these two matters.

[shypike]

1. Whether or not extra par2 files should ignore pause is a matter of debate.
Either choice makes sense in different situations.
There was never "the option which allows to download all the PAR2 files as part of the job".
Maybe what you mean is "Download" only, but then you'll have to do all post-processing yourself.
That option is still there, you can still choose Download/+Repair/+Unpack/+Delete.

2.
It does show the age in the "hover over" popup.
The sorting functionality is independent of the skin, so what's the issue exactly?

[Manni]

Hi Shypike,

Thanks for the quick reply.

Re 1), I remember (possbly wrongly) that there was an option allowing us to choose whether we wanted to download the par2 files unconditionally (ie post prcessin would not start until the par2 files were downloaded as part of the job), or only if verify fails. Now it seems that the latter is the only choice.  I never did the post-processing myself, and it must have changed relatively recently (maybe with 0.6.x) as I started noticing the out of allowance downloads only a couple of months ago, and it took me some time to trace it to Sab. Ideally I would like to keep the option to only download the par2 files if needed, but I woud also like an option to specify whether this download should take into account the pause or not, ie shoul the job be sent back to the queue with a HIGH or FORCE priority. In my case, I only have a 15GB/months on-peak allowance (unlimited off-peak), so it only takes a few jobs in needs of par2 files to get me out of my alowance (and cost me £5 per extra 5Gb!). I totally understand why some would prefer not to wait, but in my case it's not an option. Also I have no idea in the meantime how I can go on using Sab without disabling post-processing entirely.

Re 2), I noticed that it shows the age when you hover, but it's not as clear as having a column showing the age of the job as in the classic skin. What I noticed is that with the classic skin, the jobs are sorted by (average) age, which means the oldest jobs get downloaded fist, and the queue is usually correctly sorted, although you sometimes need to click the "sort by age" button to get new jobs to appear in the correct position. With plush, it looks like the "sort by age" option does what it says it does, ie sorts the parts of a job by age, but not the jobs themselves in the queue. And there is no "sort by age" button to click to re-order the jobs in the queue according to their age.

Hope this makes more sense!

[shypike]

There is a work-around for your problem:
Assuming you have only one Usenet provider, plan a "disable-server" and
"enable-server" event in the scheduler.
Use multiple events for multiple servers.
If no servers are available, downloading will stop anyway.

1)
We never had that option.
Although an option to always download all par2 files anyway
would be useful for people who have no caps and whose
downloading is faster than doing multiple par2-runs (like for me).
Making "force" obey the pause state is a sensible suggestion, I'll think about it.
What I want to avoid is another fuzzy option (we have too many already).


2)
The UI quickly becomes overcrowded. It's a decision of the skin designer to implement it like this.
You may not like the compromise, but I'm sure not everyone would agree with you.
I need to look into the sorting options, because they are confusing right now.

[Manni]

Thanks very much for the suggested workaround. However, in the schedule options, I can only select my usenet provider, and irrespective of the argument I specify (I tried enable-server or disable-server) it always schedules a disable-server. Which argument should I put in to enable the server? EDIT: found it, you need 1 to enable, 0 to disable. It looks like if it's a string it just disables. Thanks a lot for the workaround, it should solve this issue nicely.

Regarding the age sort, I would be happy if the "sort by age" option was the same as for the classic skin, ie does sort the jobs by age, (first priority, then age) not the files within the job.

Thanks again fo all your help. 2) is less important than 1).

There is a work-around for your problem:
Assuming you have only one Usenet provider, plan a "disable-server" and
"enable-server" event in the scheduler.
Use multiple events for multiple servers.
If no servers are available, downloading will stop anyway.

1)
We never had that option.
Although an option to always download all par2 files anyway
would be useful for people who have no caps and whose
downloading is faster than doing multiple par2-runs (like for me).
Making "force" obey the pause state is a sensible suggestion, I'll think about it.
What I want to avoid is another fuzzy option (we have too many already).


2)
The UI quickly becomes overcrowded. It's a decision of the skin designer to implement it like this.
You may not like the compromise, but I'm sure not everyone would agree with you.
I need to look into the sorting options, because they are confusing right now.

[shypike]

I checked age sorting in the Plush skin.
It sorts just like Classic does.
It first sorts jobs based on priority and then on age within each priority class.
That's when you're using the right-side dropdown menu.

There's also an old option in Config->Switches, called "Sort by Age".
That one should sort the queue on age automatically.
I suspect it may no longer work properly since we introduced priorities.

[Manni]

I checked age sorting in the Plush skin.
It sorts just like Classic does.
It first sorts jobs based on priority and then on age within each priority class.
That's when you're using the right-side dropdown menu.

There's a rather strange option in Config->Switches, called "Sort by Age".
That one sorts files within a job.
I think we should remove it, because I don't think it makes much sense anymore.
Most NZB files are internally sorted by age already and by default SABnzbd
tries to sort RAR segments in the right order anyway, which is also the order
in which most people post.

Thanks again, I never saw the sort option in the right side dropdown menu. There are some instances where you need to do a manual refresh of the sort, and this will do it. Plush rocks, no reasons to go back to classic!

Agreed that the sort by age option should be removed if it only sorts the files within a job.

Thanks a a lot of for all your help, that's my two main problems sorted (pun intended )

[shypike]

Checked again.
The option does sort the queue automatically, it does not sort within NZB files.
However, it has a peculiar habit: any change in the option only becomes active after a restart.
That's an oversight from the very early days of SABnzbd when any
change in options required an internal restart.
I'll fix that for the next release.

Thanks for bringing me on the trail of such an old bug.

[Manni]

That makes sense now: when I was using Classic, I would click on the "sort by age" button when it looked like it din't work (usually after the initially settings I guess), while with Plush I would change the option in the config and it would look like it didn't work, and I couldn't corret it because I hadn't discovered the sort option in the right pop up menu.

I guess if it sorts the jobs and not the files within the jobs it would be useful to keep the option in the config (but update its description), and make it clear a restart is necessary (or update the queue on the fly if possible).

Regarding your workaround for the par2, it works fine, but it means that pause becomes effectively a pause all (it won't process RSS or scan the nzb folder), which is a bit of a downside.

If you could consider offering the option to specify if we want the PAR2 forced or high, or if they could follow the pause status (ie not be downloaded when the queue is paused), it would be great.

Thanks again for your time, and for taking this into consideration!

Checked again.
The option does sort the queue automatically, it does not sort within NZB files.
However, it has a peculiar habit: any change in the option only becomes active after a restart.
That's an oversight from the very early days of SABnzbd when any
change in options required an internal restart.
I'll fix that for the next release.

Thanks for bringing me on the trail of such an old bug.

[Manni]

One last thing I wanted to ask you: is there a threshold (number of jobs or amount of data) after which the queue becomes much slower to display?

I have to deal at the moment with a very large queue (about 8TB of data!) and when I switched back from classic to plush, it orphaned about half the queue (less than 4TB). This might be a bug, but I noticed that the queue went from being ultra slow to almost instant. So I was wondering, before adding the orphans back to the queue, if there was a limit under which it was better to keep the queue for performance reasons.

Thanks!

[shypike]

Simple advise: don't use Classic with a large queue.
It lacks paging and gets all the queue data.

[Manni]

Thanks, I'll try to bring all my orphans back to the queue (using pluh, I have no reasons to use classic anymore thanks to you).

[Manni]

I was just thinking regarding the par2 processing that it could be part of the pause/pause all difference.

If on PAUSE, download the PAR2 asap after the failed verify.

If on PAUSE ALL, then wait until RESUME to download the extra PAR2.

That way, we don't need another option in the interface, and it still leaves the choice to the user to download some stuff while on pause, or none. It would make sense for PAUSE ALL to mean strictly no download outside of schedule.

I still think it would be nice to have the option to ask for the PAR2 files to be downloaded unconditionally, that way you have a better chance to get all the files during the schedule window and do the process while the download is on pause. If you have good reasons to expect the jobs to fail (like you are downloading old files and know they are likely to be incomplete) it could increase your chances to get your job done earlier. Otherwise by the time the verify is finished, you might be on pause already.

What do you think?

[shypike]

The next release will simply pause downloading, including download of extra par2 files.
Only the "Force" priority will ignore pause, but that priority will not
be used for extra par2 files.
This fits better with a future implementation of quota management.

[Manni]

Understood.

Thanks for fixing the issue.